1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920 [Music] 2 00:00:11,830 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,840 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:13,920 [Music] 5 00:00:22,630 --> 00:00:16,890 [Applause] 6 00:00:25,070 --> 00:00:22,640 [Music] 7 00:00:29,290 --> 00:00:25,080 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 8 00:00:31,930 --> 00:00:29,300 episode number 505 for the 23rd of June 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:31,940 2018 richardsaunders here with you 10 00:00:36,970 --> 00:00:35,010 coming to you once again this week from 11 00:00:39,830 --> 00:00:36,980 the Bay Area San Francisco I was 12 00:00:40,189 --> 00:00:39,840 originally going to be a home at the 13 00:00:43,369 --> 00:00:40,199 moment 14 00:00:47,119 --> 00:00:43,379 fly home a few days ago situations have 15 00:00:49,910 --> 00:00:47,129 arisen circumstances beyond my control I 16 00:00:53,110 --> 00:00:49,920 need not go on I'm in the Bay Area for 17 00:00:55,790 --> 00:00:53,120 another week and enjoying a very hot day 18 00:00:57,439 --> 00:00:55,800 no I'm not it's too hot it's going to be 19 00:01:00,259 --> 00:00:57,449 over a hundred today something like 38 20 00:01:02,689 --> 00:01:00,269 degrees Celsius 100 Fahrenheit a good 21 00:01:04,790 --> 00:01:02,699 day to be indoors coming up on this 22 00:01:06,890 --> 00:01:04,800 week's show we hear from the raw skeptic 23 00:01:09,469 --> 00:01:06,900 haile Robinson who was in Brisbane 24 00:01:13,550 --> 00:01:09,479 recently at the pregnancy babies and 25 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:13,560 children's expo to offer her help to the 26 00:01:18,230 --> 00:01:16,320 light for Riley stand now light for 27 00:01:20,810 --> 00:01:18,240 Riley is an organization set up to 28 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:20,820 promote vaccinations in the community 29 00:01:26,570 --> 00:01:24,450 and it was inspired by Riley Hughes who 30 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:26,580 tragically passed away from pertussis 31 00:01:34,130 --> 00:01:30,890 whooping cough in 2015 and he was just a 32 00:01:36,650 --> 00:01:34,140 tiny baby when he did and his parents 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:36,660 are continuing the fight now against 34 00:01:42,470 --> 00:01:40,650 vaccine preventable diseases I will link 35 00:01:44,540 --> 00:01:42,480 to light for Riley in the show notes but 36 00:01:47,570 --> 00:01:44,550 you'll hear from Kath use Riley's mother 37 00:01:50,630 --> 00:01:47,580 as well as Heidi Robinson wandering 38 00:01:55,940 --> 00:01:50,640 around the babies Expo to see if she can 39 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:55,950 snoop out any woo any non evidence-based 40 00:02:01,100 --> 00:01:58,890 things going on following that we bring 41 00:02:03,110 --> 00:02:01,110 you another story from Queensland where 42 00:02:05,570 --> 00:02:03,120 the Fair Trading part of the Queensland 43 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:05,580 Government has fined a business for 44 00:02:11,750 --> 00:02:08,729 making unsubstantiated cancer cure 45 00:02:14,930 --> 00:02:11,760 claims and this is to do with skin 46 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:14,940 cancer and having had skin cancer myself 47 00:02:21,949 --> 00:02:18,810 and having regular checkups I take issue 48 00:02:24,259 --> 00:02:21,959 with anybody promoting false skin cancer 49 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:24,269 cures that story coming up a bit later 50 00:02:29,629 --> 00:02:26,730 on then to wrap up the show another 51 00:02:32,420 --> 00:02:29,639 interview from skeptic al the conference 52 00:02:34,430 --> 00:02:32,430 I was attending here in the Bay Area or 53 00:02:37,370 --> 00:02:34,440 a couple of weeks ago this week 54 00:02:40,790 --> 00:02:37,380 I talked to Kyle polish from the data 55 00:02:43,790 --> 00:02:40,800 skeptic podcast now why would anybody be 56 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:43,800 skeptical about data find out later on 57 00:02:49,610 --> 00:02:47,490 with my interview from skeptical now 58 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:49,620 just looking over the calendar I can see 59 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:51,510 that there are many skeptical 60 00:02:57,350 --> 00:02:53,310 conventions lined up for the rest of the 61 00:03:00,740 --> 00:02:57,360 year we have got QED in the UK we have 62 00:03:03,230 --> 00:03:00,750 got Nexus in New York what else in Las 63 00:03:05,390 --> 00:03:03,240 Vegas there's saikhan coming up but of 64 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:05,400 course in Australia in Sydney Australia 65 00:03:12,170 --> 00:03:09,330 this October 13th or 14th we have the 66 00:03:14,980 --> 00:03:12,180 Australian skeptics convention and this 67 00:03:17,690 --> 00:03:14,990 year will be the 34th consecutive annual 68 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:17,700 convention you can get your tickets at 69 00:03:22,460 --> 00:03:20,850 convention skeptics comdataís you while 70 00:03:25,070 --> 00:03:22,470 you're there you can check out the list 71 00:03:26,750 --> 00:03:25,080 of speakers this year and a couple of my 72 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:26,760 favorites certainly coming along dr. 73 00:03:32,420 --> 00:03:29,910 Karl Cruz Ole Miss key always a popular 74 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:32,430 speaker dr. Pamela gay the wonderful 75 00:03:37,790 --> 00:03:35,370 astronomer dr. Susan Blackmore speaking 76 00:03:39,470 --> 00:03:37,800 all sorts of people more news about that 77 00:03:41,990 --> 00:03:39,480 over the coming months 78 00:03:44,780 --> 00:03:42,000 dr. Lynne Kelly indeed will be there so 79 00:03:47,180 --> 00:03:44,790 many good people get your tickets now at 80 00:03:50,630 --> 00:03:47,190 conventions not skeptics come today you 81 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:50,640 and we'll see you there later on in the 82 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:53,730 year but now it's time for me to run 83 00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:55,890 upstairs to the kitchen open the fridge 84 00:04:01,760 --> 00:03:57,630 and see if there are any more 85 00:04:04,699 --> 00:04:01,770 Twinkies left Twinkies Twinkies they're 86 00:04:06,650 --> 00:04:04,709 really nice and like have Americans know 87 00:04:07,970 --> 00:04:06,660 what I mean they're very tasty like a 88 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:07,980 little dessert sort of thing 89 00:04:13,790 --> 00:04:11,670 Twinkies I also discovered I in a shop 90 00:04:16,849 --> 00:04:13,800 called the dollar store root beard 91 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:16,859 flavored licorice wow I'm really going 92 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:18,510 to town here in the United States what 93 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:21,510 next well there's always root beer well 94 00:04:42,469 --> 00:04:24,330 I enjoy all that I hope you enjoy this 95 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:46,439 it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi 96 00:04:56,909 --> 00:04:54,550 Robertson hello everyone 97 00:05:00,140 --> 00:04:56,919 Heidi Robertson here from the Northern 98 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:00,150 Rivers vaccination supporters group on 99 00:05:05,460 --> 00:05:02,650 Sunday the 17th of June 100 00:05:08,460 --> 00:05:05,470 I drove a couple of hours up the road to 101 00:05:11,610 --> 00:05:08,470 Brisbane or bris Vegas as the locals 102 00:05:15,779 --> 00:05:11,620 like to call it for the pregnancy babies 103 00:05:19,050 --> 00:05:15,789 and children's Expo the Expo ran over 104 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:19,060 three days and I was volunteering just 105 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:21,849 for the Sunday for the light for Riley 106 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:25,960 saw with Kath Hughes since baby Riley 107 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:29,110 died of whooping cough in March 2015 108 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:32,830 his parents Kaif and Greg have been 109 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:34,750 tireless in their efforts to let people 110 00:05:40,589 --> 00:05:36,610 know of the importance of the third 111 00:05:43,170 --> 00:05:40,599 trimester whooping cough vaccine Kath 112 00:05:45,409 --> 00:05:43,180 wasn't offered the vaccine and baby 113 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:45,419 Riley was too young to be vaccinated 114 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:50,110 when he contracted the disease so I had 115 00:05:55,589 --> 00:05:52,060 a chance to interview Kath which we will 116 00:05:57,330 --> 00:05:55,599 get to shortly but first whilst I was 117 00:05:59,279 --> 00:05:57,340 there on my lunch break I thought I'd 118 00:06:01,710 --> 00:05:59,289 wander around the expo and see if there 119 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:01,720 was much non evidence-based stuff being 120 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:04,810 promoted by the stall holders well I'm 121 00:06:15,210 --> 00:06:10,510 here at the 2018 baby and pregnancy Expo 122 00:06:18,270 --> 00:06:15,220 in Brisbane Queensland and the reason 123 00:06:22,379 --> 00:06:18,280 I'm here is to volunteer at their light 124 00:06:27,540 --> 00:06:22,389 for Riley stand with with Kath Hughes 125 00:06:30,270 --> 00:06:27,550 and more on that bit later while I was 126 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:30,280 here my thought during my lunch break 127 00:06:36,060 --> 00:06:32,110 that I'd have a little walk around and 128 00:06:39,029 --> 00:06:36,070 see what kind of stall to hear in the 129 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:41,610 because as we know the mind/body wallet 130 00:06:44,430 --> 00:06:42,940 that I think is held in the same 131 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:44,440 location here in Brisbane at the 132 00:06:50,070 --> 00:06:48,610 Exhibition Centre is full of it so I 133 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:50,080 thought well let's have a look around 134 00:06:57,089 --> 00:06:52,110 and see what sort of whoo is being 135 00:06:59,490 --> 00:06:57,099 promoted to expectant mums and dads and 136 00:07:04,200 --> 00:06:59,500 actually I've been really pleasantly 137 00:07:08,029 --> 00:07:04,210 surprised there there isn't that much 138 00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:08,039 here there is an essential oil stand and 139 00:07:16,339 --> 00:07:11,409 there is a browser stand I think they 140 00:07:19,740 --> 00:07:16,349 sell mostly well homeopathic stuff and 141 00:07:23,249 --> 00:07:19,750 the other one that is is a bit of a 142 00:07:25,619 --> 00:07:23,259 worry is the Chiropractic Association of 143 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:25,629 Australia they have a stall here too I 144 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:28,090 just walked past it and they've got a 145 00:07:36,839 --> 00:07:33,370 baby mannequin lying on its back on a 146 00:07:38,999 --> 00:07:36,849 chiropractic table they've got a bit of 147 00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:39,009 paraffin paraphernalia around to hand 148 00:07:42,839 --> 00:07:41,680 out to people the number of times I've 149 00:07:46,260 --> 00:07:42,849 walked past there hasn't actually been 150 00:07:49,350 --> 00:07:46,270 anyone talking to them which is good and 151 00:07:51,510 --> 00:07:49,360 the other positive is that three years 152 00:07:54,839 --> 00:07:51,520 ago when I was last here helping out the 153 00:07:58,339 --> 00:07:54,849 light for a least all the chiropractor's 154 00:08:02,279 --> 00:07:58,349 stand here had books called 155 00:08:04,830 --> 00:08:02,289 well-adjusted babies which is a a well 156 00:08:06,510 --> 00:08:04,840 known book in the vaccinations well 157 00:08:09,149 --> 00:08:06,520 chiropractic world but there's a whole 158 00:08:10,950 --> 00:08:09,159 chapter on vaccinations and why you 159 00:08:14,209 --> 00:08:10,960 should not vaccinate your baby that 160 00:08:17,879 --> 00:08:14,219 chiropractic can apparently protect your 161 00:08:20,010 --> 00:08:17,889 baby against all sorts of infectious 162 00:08:22,529 --> 00:08:20,020 disease they would have you believe this 163 00:08:29,269 --> 00:08:22,539 year I haven't seen any copies of those 164 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:29,279 books around so that is a plus anyway 165 00:08:35,329 --> 00:08:32,050 having a bit more of a look around but 166 00:08:40,079 --> 00:08:35,339 it's it's really good to say that there 167 00:08:40,940 --> 00:08:40,089 is a limited amount of woo here this 168 00:08:43,300 --> 00:08:40,950 year 169 00:08:45,740 --> 00:08:43,310 of course there's a lot of stuff that 170 00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:45,750 parents probably don't need that's being 171 00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:50,220 sold to them but not not not a lot of 172 00:08:57,199 --> 00:08:55,200 stuff that can actually harm baby or new 173 00:09:00,500 --> 00:08:57,209 mums so that's a plus and the other 174 00:09:02,210 --> 00:09:00,510 thing I've noticed is talking to talking 175 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:02,220 to lots and lots of people today about 176 00:09:06,850 --> 00:09:04,290 vaccinations and how important the third 177 00:09:09,650 --> 00:09:06,860 trimester whooping cough vaccine is 178 00:09:12,019 --> 00:09:09,660 we've had a really positive response I 179 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:12,029 have not talked to one hesitant person 180 00:09:20,569 --> 00:09:17,850 they all seem to well if I had to take a 181 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:20,579 guess over 95% of the people I've spoken 182 00:09:27,319 --> 00:09:23,730 to already knew about the third 183 00:09:29,269 --> 00:09:27,329 trimester whooping cough vaccine which 184 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:29,279 is a big difference two three years ago 185 00:09:35,569 --> 00:09:32,730 when I was here and they have all all 186 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:35,579 been very very supportive either they've 187 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:37,170 already had their vaccinations they've 188 00:09:42,829 --> 00:09:40,260 booked in to have them so that's been 189 00:09:44,810 --> 00:09:42,839 really just heartwarming and I can't 190 00:09:46,970 --> 00:09:44,820 imagine what that must mean to Kat as 191 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:46,980 well of course she's been instrumental 192 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:50,850 in promoting the vaccine and and getting 193 00:09:58,370 --> 00:09:53,310 the vaccine in the third trimester free 194 00:10:01,519 --> 00:09:58,380 for all pregnant mums so very positive 195 00:10:06,130 --> 00:10:01,529 very positive I'm feeling so so good 196 00:10:08,870 --> 00:10:06,140 coming up to Brisbane from Byron Bay 197 00:10:11,569 --> 00:10:08,880 with so many parents in Brisbane who 198 00:10:14,569 --> 00:10:11,579 just seemed to be so Pro vaccinations 199 00:10:17,810 --> 00:10:14,579 absolutely wonderful new parents are 200 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:17,820 prime targets for the word crowd as they 201 00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:20,310 often unsure what they need for the new 202 00:10:24,110 --> 00:10:22,380 arrival and of course they want to 203 00:10:25,819 --> 00:10:24,120 provide the best for the baby 204 00:10:28,130 --> 00:10:25,829 and feel confident that they have 205 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:28,140 everything that's needed prior to the 206 00:10:34,130 --> 00:10:30,890 baby's grand entrance into the world I 207 00:10:38,090 --> 00:10:34,140 recall my first pregnancy 11 years ago 208 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:38,100 and how overwhelmed I often felt at the 209 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:39,930 myriad of products out there all 210 00:10:45,259 --> 00:10:42,569 claiming to be able to help settle the 211 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:45,269 baby to help feed the baby more easily 212 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:47,970 carry the baby push the baby clothe the 213 00:10:54,740 --> 00:10:50,850 baby change the baby bathe the baby wrap 214 00:10:56,510 --> 00:10:54,750 the baby and so on you are encouraged to 215 00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:56,520 purchase products to help the baby's 216 00:11:02,300 --> 00:10:59,760 physical and emotional development to 217 00:11:05,540 --> 00:11:02,310 play your baby's specific music whilst 218 00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:05,550 they are still in use room that you must 219 00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:08,160 learn baby massage to create that 220 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:10,160 bonding experience with your new baby 221 00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:14,490 the list is endless I'm happy to say 222 00:11:19,930 --> 00:11:16,920 however that although there were many 223 00:11:23,260 --> 00:11:19,940 many things on show at the expo that 224 00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:23,270 expectant parents probably don't need 225 00:11:27,770 --> 00:11:25,800 there were relatively few things that 226 00:11:32,690 --> 00:11:27,780 have the potential to actually cause 227 00:11:35,180 --> 00:11:32,700 harm in fact I counted only three stalls 228 00:11:37,010 --> 00:11:35,190 that sold products or offered services 229 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:37,020 that would make a skeptic raise an 230 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:40,890 eyebrow the first was an aromatherapy 231 00:11:46,730 --> 00:11:44,130 stall selling essential oils their 232 00:11:49,610 --> 00:11:46,740 website described essential oils as 233 00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:49,620 quote a powerful way to enhance a 234 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:52,160 positive mental and emotional state and 235 00:11:59,720 --> 00:11:57,050 build resistance to pathogens end quote 236 00:12:03,230 --> 00:11:59,730 alongside these essential oils they were 237 00:12:05,390 --> 00:12:03,240 selling aromatherapy defuses apparently 238 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:05,400 to allow the essential oils to be quote 239 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:08,250 further enhanced by the high frequency 240 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:10,890 vibrations of the ultrasonic waves end 241 00:12:15,500 --> 00:12:12,170 quote 242 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:15,510 hmm they could just advertise them as 243 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:18,660 for example makes the baby's room smell 244 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:22,530 less like poo but I guess high frequency 245 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:24,810 vibrations of ultrasonic wave sounds a 246 00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:28,170 little bit more impressive there was 247 00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:30,420 also a homeopathy store with a 248 00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:32,700 well-known homeopathic brand that is 249 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:34,620 still sold in pharmacies across 250 00:12:40,220 --> 00:12:38,010 Australia today their products relating 251 00:12:45,890 --> 00:12:40,230 to babies are ones for coughs and colds 252 00:12:50,090 --> 00:12:45,900 runny noses reflux colic and there's one 253 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:50,100 for cold flu and immunity support their 254 00:12:55,820 --> 00:12:52,410 website states that the immunity support 255 00:12:58,780 --> 00:12:55,830 product contains vitamin d3 to support 256 00:13:01,460 --> 00:12:58,790 immune system health in healthy children 257 00:13:03,730 --> 00:13:01,470 it goes on to say this product also 258 00:13:05,660 --> 00:13:03,740 contains homeopathic ingredients 259 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:05,670 traditionally used in homeopathic 260 00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:08,050 medicine to relieve fatigue 261 00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:12,550 in healthy children influenza as we know 262 00:13:18,450 --> 00:13:15,430 is a horrible illness that is truck 263 00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,460 loads worse than the common cold I would 264 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:20,800 hope that a baby with influenza symptoms 265 00:13:24,810 --> 00:13:22,990 would not be given a homeopathic product 266 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:24,820 in the place of getting medical 267 00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,250 attention the third stall was one run by 268 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:32,320 the Chiropractic Association of 269 00:13:37,220 --> 00:13:34,690 Australia and manned by chiropractors 270 00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:37,230 one of whom when I visited at least 271 00:13:42,420 --> 00:13:39,660 specialized in pediatrics 272 00:13:45,210 --> 00:13:42,430 they had a baby mannequin lying on its 273 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:45,220 back on a chiropractic table and were 274 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:47,170 handing out information on the alleged 275 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:48,910 benefits of chiropractic for the 276 00:13:55,650 --> 00:13:52,710 pregnant mum plus the newborn itself I 277 00:13:58,380 --> 00:13:55,660 went and had a brief chat to them about 278 00:14:00,900 --> 00:13:58,390 chiropractic in the newborn and asked 279 00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,910 why it was necessary in their opinion to 280 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:03,360 take a newborn to a chiropractor 281 00:14:08,190 --> 00:14:05,770 the answer I was given was that the 282 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:08,200 birth experience is highly physically 283 00:14:13,290 --> 00:14:11,010 traumatic for the baby their pediatric 284 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:13,300 chiropractors could adjust the baby to 285 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:15,310 maintain optimal health and well-being 286 00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:18,610 for the child problems with reflux and 287 00:14:24,990 --> 00:14:21,990 feeding could also be helped they said I 288 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:25,000 asked how they diagnosed such problems 289 00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:28,090 in a newborn it's all by touch I was 290 00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:30,430 told and the adjustments are little more 291 00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:31,870 than the pressure you could comfortably 292 00:14:37,950 --> 00:14:34,390 put on your own closed eyelid with your 293 00:14:38,820 --> 00:14:37,960 thumb I thought to myself at that point 294 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:38,830 Wow 295 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:41,050 every time someone picks up and holds a 296 00:14:44,730 --> 00:14:43,180 newborn they're putting more than that 297 00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:44,740 amount of pressure on them just by the 298 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:46,510 fact that they are carrying a three to 299 00:14:51,870 --> 00:14:49,960 four kilogram weight in their arms I had 300 00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:51,880 a flashback of holding my squirming 301 00:14:55,830 --> 00:14:53,740 baby's still on the change table 302 00:14:58,820 --> 00:14:55,840 literally restraining them while I 303 00:15:01,890 --> 00:14:58,830 completed the not so easy nappy changes 304 00:15:04,850 --> 00:15:01,900 how is it that we are not all subluxated 305 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:04,860 our baby's spines left right and centre 306 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:06,910 perhaps we are according to the 307 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:10,170 chiropractors however I wasn't 308 00:15:16,020 --> 00:15:14,050 confrontational or rude as we know some 309 00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:16,030 chiropractors have made claims way 310 00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:17,920 beyond the ones they were claiming here 311 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:19,870 at the Expo of being able to help with 312 00:15:25,079 --> 00:15:22,050 feeding and reflow 313 00:15:27,150 --> 00:15:25,089 listeners may also remember that certain 314 00:15:29,699 --> 00:15:27,160 members of this particular Chiropractic 315 00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:29,709 Association were caught sneaking into 316 00:15:34,949 --> 00:15:32,230 hospitals to adjust spinal injured 317 00:15:37,139 --> 00:15:34,959 patients three years ago was the last 318 00:15:39,150 --> 00:15:37,149 time I had helped out at the light for 319 00:15:43,819 --> 00:15:39,160 Reilly stall and there was a lot more 320 00:15:46,110 --> 00:15:43,829 woo back then than there was in 2018 I 321 00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:46,120 recall that either a midwife or a 322 00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,100 Chiropractic store back then I can't 323 00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:50,560 remember which one was selling a book 324 00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:53,800 called well-adjusted babies that had a 325 00:15:59,550 --> 00:15:56,639 whole anti vaccination chapter in it 326 00:16:03,360 --> 00:15:59,560 thankfully this time there was no such 327 00:16:05,879 --> 00:16:03,370 nonsense being sold and now on to my 328 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:05,889 interview with a woman who along with 329 00:16:12,329 --> 00:16:08,850 her husband Greg are two of the most 330 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:12,339 inspirational people I have met here's 331 00:16:19,249 --> 00:16:14,350 my interview with Catherine Hughes 332 00:16:24,030 --> 00:16:19,259 so I'm here with Catherine Hughes who is 333 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:24,040 the mum of little baby Riley and as 334 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:27,010 listeners may remember Riley tragically 335 00:16:32,220 --> 00:16:30,910 lost his life after 32 days he was too 336 00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:32,230 young to be vaccinated for whooping 337 00:16:38,490 --> 00:16:35,860 cough Cathy and her husband Greg have 338 00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:38,500 been amazing activists since then to 339 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:40,630 raise awareness about the importance of 340 00:16:44,579 --> 00:16:42,370 the whooping cough vaccine especially in 341 00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:44,589 the third trimester for pregnant mums so 342 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:47,680 guys tell us a little bit about light 343 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:50,310 for Riley and and your journey since 344 00:16:55,889 --> 00:16:53,560 Riley tragically passed away thanks 345 00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:55,899 Harvey we started our life for Riley 346 00:17:01,800 --> 00:16:58,240 campaign pretty much the day after we 347 00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:01,810 lost Riley we'd learned when I was in 348 00:17:06,299 --> 00:17:04,390 hospital with Riley that other countries 349 00:17:08,699 --> 00:17:06,309 for doing pregnancy vaccination programs 350 00:17:12,539 --> 00:17:08,709 and I remember you know as he lay dying 351 00:17:14,429 --> 00:17:12,549 there sitting there thinking why did we 352 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:14,439 not have this vaccine why wasn't it 353 00:17:19,470 --> 00:17:17,530 offered to us we put up a post on 354 00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:19,480 Facebook and it went pretty viral so we 355 00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:21,640 had media at her house you know knocking 356 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:23,199 at the door the next morning which was 357 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:27,610 just beyond overwhelming but my husband 358 00:17:32,430 --> 00:17:29,740 was braver than I was and he was happy 359 00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:32,440 to talk to them and use that as an 360 00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:34,980 opportunity to create pressure and 361 00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:37,030 encourage their government to introduce 362 00:17:41,970 --> 00:17:39,760 these third trimester boosters which you 363 00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:41,980 know if we had had that with Riley we 364 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:43,240 really believe it would have saved his 365 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:45,010 life and it's kind of snowballed from 366 00:17:48,899 --> 00:17:46,470 there we travel around to these 367 00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:48,909 pregnancy babies and Children's Expos 368 00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:50,440 and I do a little bit of public speaking 369 00:17:56,730 --> 00:17:54,100 and we run our social media page as well 370 00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,740 to try and encourage people to vaccinate 371 00:18:01,770 --> 00:17:58,240 and find out about just how dangerous 372 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:01,780 who think of can be yeah as you remember 373 00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:03,850 I was up here helping you three years 374 00:18:10,919 --> 00:18:07,950 ago at the still and same location and 375 00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:10,929 tell me what your experience has been 376 00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:13,840 the difference between three years ago 377 00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:16,270 and today in interacting with people at 378 00:18:21,180 --> 00:18:18,580 these Expos there's been a huge 379 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:21,190 difference I've noticed a lot more 380 00:18:26,570 --> 00:18:23,530 people at this Expo compared to back in 381 00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:26,580 2015 a lot more people are aware of 382 00:18:31,049 --> 00:18:28,780 pregnancy vaccinations and they're 383 00:18:32,909 --> 00:18:31,059 accepting of it and they think it's the 384 00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:32,919 norm that will come up to us and say yes 385 00:18:36,030 --> 00:18:34,240 you know we've had oh we're so proud of 386 00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:36,040 ourselves don't worry about us you know 387 00:18:39,149 --> 00:18:38,110 we've had a third trimester booster and 388 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:39,159 you look at them and they're really 389 00:18:43,409 --> 00:18:41,530 proud of themselves and it's really 390 00:18:46,140 --> 00:18:43,419 wonderful to see that that awareness is 391 00:18:49,919 --> 00:18:46,150 finally really good out there and if you 392 00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:49,929 had any experience that these expose you 393 00:18:54,339 --> 00:18:52,480 much experience with hesitant parents or 394 00:18:57,169 --> 00:18:54,349 even 395 00:18:58,909 --> 00:18:57,179 approached you I love chatting to the 396 00:19:00,379 --> 00:18:58,919 hesitant parents there's not a whole lot 397 00:19:02,389 --> 00:19:00,389 of them but we do get approached from 398 00:19:04,609 --> 00:19:02,399 time to time and I sort of say look it's 399 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:04,619 normal to have questions about about 400 00:19:09,379 --> 00:19:06,330 parenting and what we do with our 401 00:19:11,209 --> 00:19:09,389 children you know it's it just shows 402 00:19:14,899 --> 00:19:11,219 that that they're thoughtful enough to 403 00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:14,909 care so we have quite long productive 404 00:19:18,409 --> 00:19:16,499 discussions with those parents and 405 00:19:19,879 --> 00:19:18,419 usually ends with them thing you know 406 00:19:23,690 --> 00:19:19,889 somewhat accepting or at least willing 407 00:19:26,049 --> 00:19:23,700 to take on board our information you 408 00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:26,059 know anti-vaxxers we get a lot of online 409 00:19:31,369 --> 00:19:29,609 we haven't had too much thankfully to 410 00:19:33,229 --> 00:19:31,379 deal with them at the expo okay so you 411 00:19:34,249 --> 00:19:33,239 get the odd comment that really most of 412 00:19:37,399 --> 00:19:34,259 the people that these experts are really 413 00:19:39,349 --> 00:19:37,409 lovely it's really it's it's different I 414 00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:39,359 find when you actually are face to face 415 00:19:43,459 --> 00:19:41,190 with someone as opposed to the other 416 00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:43,469 side of a computer screen behind a 417 00:19:49,940 --> 00:19:46,529 keyboard people are a lot less likely I 418 00:19:53,329 --> 00:19:49,950 think to to be rude to you face to face 419 00:19:55,699 --> 00:19:53,339 and sometimes if they can I think be 420 00:19:59,599 --> 00:19:55,709 taken aback at that were actually nice 421 00:20:00,979 --> 00:19:59,609 people and yet so the face to face 422 00:20:04,609 --> 00:20:00,989 conversations I think they're really 423 00:20:06,019 --> 00:20:04,619 important to have as it as important if 424 00:20:08,089 --> 00:20:06,029 not more important than they online 425 00:20:10,219 --> 00:20:08,099 conversations with disease yeah 426 00:20:13,789 --> 00:20:10,229 definitely it's completely different to 427 00:20:15,259 --> 00:20:13,799 interacting online online people aren't 428 00:20:18,349 --> 00:20:15,269 scared to voice their opinion quickly 429 00:20:20,509 --> 00:20:18,359 rudely without thinking about it they'll 430 00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:20,519 just do it rose in pair some people are 431 00:20:23,389 --> 00:20:21,840 a lot more thoughtful I think about what 432 00:20:25,369 --> 00:20:23,399 they're going to say a lot more 433 00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:25,379 respectful and so I'm sure there's been 434 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:26,940 people who've come up to us and who 435 00:20:31,099 --> 00:20:28,710 don't agree with vaccinations for 436 00:20:33,139 --> 00:20:31,109 whatever reason but they're polite about 437 00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:33,149 it and they will you know at least 438 00:20:37,549 --> 00:20:35,580 accept our information and not not I 439 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:37,559 guess give us that abuse that we get 440 00:20:45,019 --> 00:20:41,849 online yeah yeah and as far as the light 441 00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:45,029 for Riley campaign goes and the Facebook 442 00:20:52,310 --> 00:20:48,089 page and everything do you think do you 443 00:20:54,289 --> 00:20:52,320 think it's been helpful in might be 444 00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:54,299 getting a little bit personal but do you 445 00:20:58,459 --> 00:20:56,159 think it's been helpful in the grief 446 00:21:00,889 --> 00:20:58,469 process for you if you were to take out 447 00:21:03,169 --> 00:21:00,899 of the equation the anti-vaccination 448 00:21:05,299 --> 00:21:03,179 people online if you were to take away 449 00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:05,309 that that element of it do you think 450 00:21:11,890 --> 00:21:08,960 that it's been beneficial in 451 00:21:16,810 --> 00:21:11,900 the grading process here I do think it's 452 00:21:19,090 --> 00:21:16,820 quite a therapeutic process as a braved 453 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:19,100 parent you know child loss is a pretty 454 00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:21,170 dark cloud and it was really important 455 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:22,880 for us to find some kind of silver 456 00:21:28,030 --> 00:21:25,310 lining or else it was just really hard 457 00:21:30,610 --> 00:21:28,040 to function especially in those very 458 00:21:33,370 --> 00:21:30,620 early days where you just fill out your 459 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:33,380 hearts been ripped out and you honestly 460 00:21:37,210 --> 00:21:35,330 you've walked out of that hospital 461 00:21:39,310 --> 00:21:37,220 without your baby a completely different 462 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:39,320 person you don't know how you're going 463 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:42,650 to get out of bed the next day but just 464 00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:45,050 having something to focus on was really 465 00:21:49,390 --> 00:21:46,940 very helpful for us in those early 466 00:21:51,610 --> 00:21:49,400 stages now it's just that sort of 467 00:21:53,290 --> 00:21:51,620 balancing act between okay well I've got 468 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:53,300 other things in my life I've got other 469 00:21:57,340 --> 00:21:54,850 children you know so it's a matter of 470 00:21:58,930 --> 00:21:57,350 balancing and not getting too focused on 471 00:22:01,060 --> 00:21:58,940 this stuff which I can you know 472 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:01,070 sometimes I just get so drawn into what 473 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:03,610 we're doing but overall yes very very 474 00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:05,690 therapeutic I think talking about 475 00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:07,910 Riley's story it's definitely did help 476 00:22:13,690 --> 00:22:10,270 just having an avenue to express our 477 00:22:16,450 --> 00:22:13,700 emotion yeah and tell the listeners a 478 00:22:18,340 --> 00:22:16,460 little bit about the foundation we 479 00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:18,350 started the immunization foundation of 480 00:22:23,020 --> 00:22:20,480 Australia about a year after we lost 481 00:22:25,990 --> 00:22:23,030 Riley we wanted to create an umbrella 482 00:22:27,550 --> 00:22:26,000 foundation so that if other parents you 483 00:22:29,350 --> 00:22:27,560 know how to experiences with vaccine 484 00:22:31,690 --> 00:22:29,360 preventable diseases or other people 485 00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:31,700 wanted to have campaigns or projects 486 00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:33,950 just like like for Riley they could do 487 00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:35,990 it under the umbrella of our foundation 488 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:39,460 so the mission of the foundation is to 489 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:41,810 reduce the amount of harm and suffering 490 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:43,730 caused by vaccine preventable diseases 491 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:46,690 both in Australia and overseas as well 492 00:22:51,010 --> 00:22:48,650 so we're quite passionate about raising 493 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:51,020 awareness about diseases so people don't 494 00:22:54,670 --> 00:22:53,210 forget you know what those diseases are 495 00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:54,680 that they do exist that they're out 496 00:23:00,040 --> 00:22:58,400 there and also to do some overseas aid 497 00:23:02,550 --> 00:23:00,050 work which we've just commenced in 498 00:23:04,810 --> 00:23:02,560 Tanzania with a rollout of some 499 00:23:08,290 --> 00:23:04,820 pneumococcal vaccination program well 500 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:08,300 really yeah well thanks to Professor 501 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:10,130 Robert boy it's a project that has led 502 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:11,930 and that we've decided that we would 503 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:14,210 like to fund so it's training 504 00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:16,690 immunization nurses up over there too 505 00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,700 to roll out a two-dose pneumococcal 506 00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:20,320 vaccination program rather than a 507 00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:22,660 three-dose vaccination program which 508 00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:24,100 means it's a lot cheaper for the 509 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:26,470 countries to run you know the developing 510 00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:28,810 countries but there's a lot of really 511 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:30,670 good evidence it shows that two doses of 512 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:33,610 pneumococcal vaccine is enough to 513 00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:37,330 protect yeah Wow that's well you learn 514 00:23:43,170 --> 00:23:40,750 something new so tell me where can 515 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:43,180 people go to if they want to find out 516 00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:46,090 more about the immunization foundation 517 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:49,000 and possibly make a donation to such a 518 00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:51,370 worthy cause that would be amazing we 519 00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:53,080 don't have any funding at the moment so 520 00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:55,630 it's all on donations currently and you 521 00:24:01,250 --> 00:23:57,370 can donate on our website which is 522 00:24:05,850 --> 00:24:01,260 immunization foundation.org AM 523 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:05,860 immunization foundation or a you okay 524 00:24:10,620 --> 00:24:07,570 well we better get back to the store 525 00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:10,630 that pregnancy Expo is winding down and 526 00:24:16,290 --> 00:24:13,300 you're hopping on a plane back to Perth 527 00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:16,300 tonight so you've got still a few hours 528 00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:18,790 ahead of you yet but thank you for your 529 00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:23,350 time and and I'll catch you I'm sure if 530 00:24:28,350 --> 00:24:26,710 not at the next pregnancy Expo at maybe 531 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:28,360 the next gifticon coming up you never 532 00:24:30,270 --> 00:24:28,810 know 533 00:24:33,060 --> 00:24:30,280 thanks so much for volunteering today 534 00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:33,070 Holly - oh you're very welcome thank you 535 00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:46,790 [Music] 536 00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:49,710 Kwak watch your guide to quackery health 537 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:52,470 fraud and intelligent decisions operated 538 00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:53,610 by Stephan Barratt 539 00:24:58,550 --> 00:24:56,460 MD quack watch is now an international 540 00:25:00,770 --> 00:24:58,560 network of people who concerned about 541 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:00,780 health-related frauds myths fans 542 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:02,610 fallacies and misconducted 543 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:05,760 its primary focus is on quackery related 544 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:07,770 information that is difficult or 545 00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:10,050 impossible to get elsewhere articles are 546 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:13,320 in quackery include quackery how should 547 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:16,710 it be defined how it sells 26 ways to 548 00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:20,640 spot it how it calms cancer patients 7 549 00:25:25,670 --> 00:25:23,190 warning signs for bogus science why 550 00:25:28,730 --> 00:25:25,680 health professionals become quacks and 551 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:28,740 many more including in-depth looks at an 552 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:31,250 acupuncture chiropractic homeopathy 553 00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:35,810 naturopathy and much more visit w-w-w 554 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:38,200 watch calm 555 00:26:00,010 --> 00:25:57,120 [Music] 556 00:26:03,850 --> 00:26:00,020 now here's a press release from the 557 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:03,860 Queensland Government and for 558 00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:05,570 international listeners who may not know 559 00:26:12,159 --> 00:26:09,919 Queensland is a very sizable state in 560 00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,169 Australia to the north of New South 561 00:26:17,460 --> 00:26:14,240 Wales it's a massive state popular for 562 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:17,470 our the Great Barrier Reef tourism 563 00:26:21,190 --> 00:26:20,450 rainforest that sort of thing however 564 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:21,200 here we go 565 00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:24,730 fair trading takes beef with 566 00:26:29,889 --> 00:26:27,950 unsubstantiated cancer cure business 567 00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:29,899 find eleven thousand five hundred and 568 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:32,000 ninety two dollars and this press 569 00:26:39,730 --> 00:26:34,730 release comes to us on the 14th of June 570 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:39,740 2018 a Queensland business has been 571 00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:41,990 ordered to pay more than eleven thousand 572 00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:44,120 dollars by the Brisbane Magistrates 573 00:26:50,889 --> 00:26:47,960 Court today 13th of June 2018 for 574 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:50,899 failing to substantiate claims following 575 00:26:56,649 --> 00:26:54,080 an Office of Fair Trading investigation 576 00:27:00,519 --> 00:26:56,659 son beef proprietary limited training 577 00:27:02,289 --> 00:27:00,529 his son Altima failed to comply with a 578 00:27:04,690 --> 00:27:02,299 notice issued by the Office of Fair 579 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:04,700 Trading which was seeking to 580 00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:06,890 substantiate claims about its product 581 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:11,020 curing skin cancer son beef was fined 582 00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:15,710 $10,000 plus professional costs of $1500 583 00:27:21,070 --> 00:27:17,990 in addition to $92 court costs a 584 00:27:23,019 --> 00:27:21,080 conviction was recorded the court heard 585 00:27:26,049 --> 00:27:23,029 that the Office of Fair Trading received 586 00:27:29,230 --> 00:27:26,059 a complaint in 2017 regarding a son 587 00:27:31,450 --> 00:27:29,240 ultimate product in an advertisement the 588 00:27:36,430 --> 00:27:31,460 product of five millilitres son Ultima 589 00:27:40,019 --> 00:27:36,440 skin cancer cure retailed for 560 590 00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:40,029 dollars and was marketed as a quote 591 00:27:47,769 --> 00:27:44,480 natural herbal derived skin cancer cure 592 00:27:49,899 --> 00:27:47,779 end quote son Altimas website also 593 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:49,909 featured testimonials from three people 594 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:52,250 who claimed the product had cured their 595 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:54,650 cancers in the office of fair trade 596 00:28:00,040 --> 00:27:56,930 commenced with an investigation into Sun 597 00:28:02,590 --> 00:28:00,050 Ultima as it was concerned the trader 598 00:28:05,470 --> 00:28:02,600 was misleading vulnerable customers many 599 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:05,480 of whom may be desperate for a cure that 600 00:28:10,299 --> 00:28:08,210 the Sun ultimate product was a cure for 601 00:28:12,670 --> 00:28:10,309 skin cancer as the Queensland 602 00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:12,680 marketplace regulator the Office of Fair 603 00:28:17,310 --> 00:28:14,750 Trading requested Sun Ultima provide 604 00:28:19,570 --> 00:28:17,320 information to substantiate the claims 605 00:28:22,570 --> 00:28:19,580 identified the people who had provided 606 00:28:25,210 --> 00:28:22,580 testimonials and showed the product was 607 00:28:28,270 --> 00:28:25,220 appropriately endorsed for the treatment 608 00:28:29,950 --> 00:28:28,280 of skin cancer Sun ultimate refused to 609 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:29,960 provide documents substantiating the 610 00:28:36,490 --> 00:28:32,690 claims made for the product fair trading 611 00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:36,500 executive director Brian Bower said the 612 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:39,260 result served as a prompt to businesses 613 00:28:45,070 --> 00:28:42,250 to treat consumers fairly quote 614 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:45,080 businesses must ensure that they are 615 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:48,070 aware of their Australian Consumer Law 616 00:28:52,810 --> 00:28:51,170 obligations and aren't misrepresenting 617 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:52,820 their products to consumers end quote 618 00:28:58,419 --> 00:28:56,510 mr. Bower said quote a failure to follow 619 00:29:01,330 --> 00:28:58,429 these obligations will result in 620 00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:01,340 enforcement action by Fair Trading 621 00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:04,220 it is particularly despicable when a 622 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:06,260 business preys on desperate and 623 00:29:10,540 --> 00:29:08,690 vulnerable consumers the Office of Fair 624 00:29:12,610 --> 00:29:10,550 Trading will investigate and bring 625 00:29:14,770 --> 00:29:12,620 matters like this before the courts end 626 00:29:16,810 --> 00:29:14,780 quote more information on consumer and 627 00:29:22,419 --> 00:29:16,820 business rights and responsibilities can 628 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:22,429 be found at wwq LD gov au / Fair Trading 629 00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:24,890 and of course there will be a link on 630 00:29:31,299 --> 00:29:27,380 this week's show not an important story 631 00:29:33,940 --> 00:29:31,309 the correct avenues being pursued there 632 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:33,950 the correct course of action and a 633 00:29:37,930 --> 00:29:36,290 company making unsubstantiated cancer 634 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:37,940 cures have been brought before the 635 00:29:42,220 --> 00:29:40,610 courts and we can only hope that more 636 00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:42,230 companies like this will end up before 637 00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:45,260 the courts and asked to please provide 638 00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,390 information to back up their amazing 639 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:48,960 claims 640 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:50,110 [Music] 641 00:30:16,900 --> 00:29:52,730 and thank you to heidi robinson for 642 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:16,910 bringing this story to my attention well 643 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:18,770 it's been a wonderful day here at 644 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:20,690 skeptic are they still going on but I've 645 00:30:24,970 --> 00:30:21,770 snuck outside 646 00:30:28,930 --> 00:30:24,980 I'm with Kyle Pollock who does a podcast 647 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:28,940 called the data skeptic what what what 648 00:30:32,650 --> 00:30:29,930 what is this all about 649 00:30:34,990 --> 00:30:32,660 what do you skeptical of with data well 650 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:35,000 I used to say I'm skeptical of and with 651 00:30:39,550 --> 00:30:37,610 data that data is not only the tool we 652 00:30:41,170 --> 00:30:39,560 use to do applied skepticism but it's 653 00:30:42,670 --> 00:30:41,180 something to be skeptical of because 654 00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:42,680 people can lie with statistics if they 655 00:30:47,410 --> 00:30:44,720 choose to that's an interesting angle 656 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:47,420 because the talk which you gave about an 657 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:50,450 hour ago or so was all about artificial 658 00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:52,250 intelligence so how does that wrap 659 00:30:57,970 --> 00:30:55,760 itself into what you do so AI is kind of 660 00:30:59,530 --> 00:30:57,980 this goal state if you will of people in 661 00:31:01,870 --> 00:30:59,540 the computer science world working on 662 00:31:04,030 --> 00:31:01,880 machine learning machine learning is a 663 00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:04,040 powerful technology in play and a lot of 664 00:31:07,660 --> 00:31:06,110 places in our world today I would be 665 00:31:09,910 --> 00:31:07,670 impressed if anyone could claim they 666 00:31:12,430 --> 00:31:09,920 don't see its benefits on a day to day 667 00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:12,440 basis from Google searches to our phones 668 00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:13,760 that hear our language and all these 669 00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:15,320 sorts of wonderful advancements and 670 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:17,270 there's this pinnacle thing we'd one day 671 00:31:20,890 --> 00:31:18,530 like to do and that's make a machine 672 00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:20,900 think and while I have no doubt that 673 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:23,120 eventually homo sapiens have figured out 674 00:31:27,670 --> 00:31:25,730 a way to do that the path to getting to 675 00:31:29,980 --> 00:31:27,680 it isn't totally clear but I'm excited 676 00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:29,990 to cover the road the advancements along 677 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:31,760 that path and also be skeptical of the 678 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:33,290 claim that are a bit dubious along the 679 00:31:37,810 --> 00:31:35,090 lines there are a lot of claims out yeah 680 00:31:38,890 --> 00:31:37,820 yeah you you're speaking about some of 681 00:31:40,450 --> 00:31:38,900 them today but I'm interested in this 682 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:40,460 whole concept of artificial intelligence 683 00:31:47,140 --> 00:31:44,210 at what stage do you consider this 684 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:47,150 computer sitting on the floor has 685 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:50,090 artificial intelligence as opposed to oh 686 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:51,770 it's just a very good and quick computer 687 00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:53,690 well we have today is just a very good 688 00:31:57,330 --> 00:31:55,310 and quick computer that's right yeah 689 00:31:59,550 --> 00:31:57,340 absolutely there are thing 690 00:32:00,450 --> 00:31:59,560 that worked today that are almost spooky 691 00:32:02,730 --> 00:32:00,460 and how good they are 692 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:02,740 I'm impressed with language translation 693 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:04,330 the state of the art to go from English 694 00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:06,490 to Spanish or some other language it 695 00:32:10,770 --> 00:32:08,350 used to be with simple word replacement 696 00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:10,780 and there'd be these funny things you'd 697 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:12,190 put it into some system that would 698 00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:14,040 translate you'd get just gibberish out 699 00:32:18,030 --> 00:32:16,300 not so much anymore 700 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:18,040 the mistakes those machines make today 701 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:20,710 are few and far between and even the 702 00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:22,210 ones they do seem to highlight an 703 00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:24,310 incompatibility of languages you know 704 00:32:29,010 --> 00:32:25,840 where one language is more expressive in 705 00:32:30,930 --> 00:32:29,020 some fact in some way than another yet 706 00:32:33,390 --> 00:32:30,940 we don't call that AI it's it's very 707 00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:33,400 good at a very specific task and that's 708 00:32:36,390 --> 00:32:34,960 what's been the major breakthroughs and 709 00:32:38,340 --> 00:32:36,400 achievements we've seen in the last 710 00:32:40,020 --> 00:32:38,350 couple of decades you know getting 711 00:32:42,450 --> 00:32:40,030 really good at really specific things 712 00:32:44,370 --> 00:32:42,460 but to get good at general intelligence 713 00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:44,380 that's still just out of reach for 714 00:32:49,410 --> 00:32:46,720 current state of the art technology yeah 715 00:32:51,210 --> 00:32:49,420 you're absolutely right because how you 716 00:32:54,030 --> 00:32:51,220 hear this tone up I've heard this term 717 00:32:56,070 --> 00:32:54,040 for years yeah I mean what I really 718 00:32:58,980 --> 00:32:56,080 think about it I one of my first Jobs 719 00:33:02,340 --> 00:32:58,990 was in computers educational software 720 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:02,350 and that was in the 80s and I think I 721 00:33:05,970 --> 00:33:04,090 remember hearing the term artificial 722 00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:05,980 intelligence even way back then well it 723 00:33:10,650 --> 00:33:08,440 goes back to the 50s really our great 724 00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:10,660 founding father Alan Turing was the 725 00:33:15,290 --> 00:33:12,340 first deposit the question can a machine 726 00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:15,300 think in his 1950 paper very 727 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:18,430 forward-looking you know outlined kind 728 00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:20,050 of the argument and how we would test 729 00:33:24,030 --> 00:33:21,910 for it through the imitation game and 730 00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:24,040 we're still testing a bit today but 731 00:33:29,130 --> 00:33:25,840 we're not quite there yet at the general 732 00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:29,140 intelligence level and you and your talk 733 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:32,590 you're talking about the the test mr. 734 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:35,770 Turing test isn't it yeah and for people 735 00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:39,610 who don't know that's where a person 736 00:33:42,770 --> 00:33:40,980 enters a room and there 737 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:42,780 have two responses and they have to 738 00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:44,490 figure out if the response a is a human 739 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:46,320 or a computer and response B is it from 740 00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,690 a human or a computer and I think I've 741 00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:50,640 come across that myself there's certain 742 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:53,880 online help sure yeah situations where 743 00:33:58,700 --> 00:33:55,770 I've been spending 10 minutes chatting 744 00:34:01,330 --> 00:33:58,710 to to Mary or whatever it is and I 745 00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:01,340 thought wait a minute this is just a bot 746 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:04,080 that's that's scary that's spooky 747 00:34:09,350 --> 00:34:06,510 yeah that technology is advancing 748 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:09,360 quickly and for specific tasks book me a 749 00:34:13,700 --> 00:34:11,970 flight arrange my vacation you know 750 00:34:15,770 --> 00:34:13,710 things that you can kind of quantify and 751 00:34:17,780 --> 00:34:15,780 isolate is a limited number of inputs 752 00:34:18,890 --> 00:34:17,790 and outputs that technology is really 753 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:18,900 getting there and I think we're gonna 754 00:34:23,180 --> 00:34:20,940 see a transformation over the next five 755 00:34:25,490 --> 00:34:23,190 to ten years where chat BOTS become the 756 00:34:27,650 --> 00:34:25,500 new user interface yeah but in the same 757 00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:27,660 way you go to your web browser to find a 758 00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:29,640 website you go to your email client to 759 00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:31,980 do email there's no general purpose 760 00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:33,929 anything yet obviously Google aspires to 761 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:35,760 be that with their block or their search 762 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:37,050 box and maybe they'll get there one day 763 00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:39,570 but it's not a conversational agent and 764 00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:41,310 one of the things Turing identified as 765 00:34:45,980 --> 00:34:43,350 conversation is really a key to 766 00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:45,990 measuring intelligence it's not can one 767 00:34:49,850 --> 00:34:47,790 bot be convincing for 10 minutes while 768 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:49,860 you find out if your warranty is expired 769 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:52,410 it's you know when you are aware that 770 00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:54,570 you might be talking to a machine can 771 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:56,250 you tell the difference if it's actively 772 00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,570 trying to deceive you that that's the 773 00:35:01,700 --> 00:34:59,280 real measure of an intelligent thinking 774 00:35:04,220 --> 00:35:01,710 machine and that hasn't happened yet 775 00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:04,230 although there are situations with me 776 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:06,390 and my online chat where I was trying to 777 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:08,850 fix a problem with my phone service and 778 00:35:12,170 --> 00:35:10,650 it occurred to me sometime down the 779 00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:12,180 track that this wasn't a human but not 780 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:13,920 originally there are asked they were 781 00:35:17,240 --> 00:35:15,690 saying how I used today what can I do 782 00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:17,250 for you let me look that up that sort of 783 00:35:20,180 --> 00:35:18,150 thing yeah of course 784 00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:20,190 you're going into it first with the 785 00:35:24,140 --> 00:35:22,140 assumption you're talking to a human but 786 00:35:26,330 --> 00:35:24,150 not necessarily the expectation that 787 00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:26,340 you're going to be deceived yes and that 788 00:35:30,830 --> 00:35:28,740 agent if it's well coated it's doing a 789 00:35:33,350 --> 00:35:30,840 good job and it can get pretty far into 790 00:35:35,630 --> 00:35:33,360 a conversation because you know think 791 00:35:38,510 --> 00:35:35,640 about it if you call a car rental agency 792 00:35:39,950 --> 00:35:38,520 there is probably one of four questions 793 00:35:41,420 --> 00:35:39,960 you're gonna ask you know can I change 794 00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:41,430 my appointment you have availability 795 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:43,350 things that they've heard a thousand 796 00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,970 times and have probably been tracking 797 00:35:48,020 --> 00:35:46,560 you know through the software they've 798 00:35:50,270 --> 00:35:48,030 had on the machines for a while so 799 00:35:53,150 --> 00:35:50,280 building a system that's an expert in 800 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:53,160 these very narrow areas can get you 10 801 00:35:56,940 --> 00:35:54,850 minutes into a conversation but 802 00:35:59,400 --> 00:35:56,950 when you say oh by the way I'm gonna 803 00:36:01,920 --> 00:35:59,410 need a car with XM radio and preferably 804 00:36:03,540 --> 00:36:01,930 one that's a hybrid and maybe that's a 805 00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:03,550 task that a chat bot will soon be able 806 00:36:08,820 --> 00:36:06,550 to respond to but today it'll either 807 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:08,830 respond nonsensically reveal itself or 808 00:36:12,990 --> 00:36:10,930 if they've coded it in a very smart way 809 00:36:14,370 --> 00:36:13,000 maybe escalate you to a human and if 810 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:14,380 they do that seamlessly you might not 811 00:36:19,650 --> 00:36:17,290 even know it's happened that is true do 812 00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:19,660 you think though in that situation where 813 00:36:25,380 --> 00:36:22,600 I'm going to the webpage to us for help 814 00:36:28,170 --> 00:36:25,390 and says chat to us now do you think as 815 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:28,180 a courtesy it should say you are now 816 00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:31,330 speaking with xxx why the computer oh 817 00:36:35,550 --> 00:36:33,700 that's a very interesting question 818 00:36:37,470 --> 00:36:35,560 would people then just not chat to them 819 00:36:39,060 --> 00:36:37,480 I think it's entirely like a question 820 00:36:41,010 --> 00:36:39,070 for a sociologist not a computer 821 00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:41,020 scientist because yeah people might 822 00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:43,180 reject it on that basis or assume it 823 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:45,880 can't be good especially I'm not that I 824 00:36:49,170 --> 00:36:47,290 consider myself yet of an older 825 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:49,180 generation but I'm 37 there's a lot of 826 00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,890 people younger than me I think they're 827 00:36:54,270 --> 00:36:52,480 more accepting of some of those things I 828 00:36:55,620 --> 00:36:54,280 don't want to talk to a chat but most of 829 00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:55,630 the time because I know the limits of 830 00:36:59,100 --> 00:36:57,610 the technology why I'm with you however 831 00:37:01,830 --> 00:36:59,110 if I think the checkbook could easily 832 00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:01,840 fix my problems I don't care right you 833 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:04,030 know instantly yeah I don't have to talk 834 00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:06,970 to a human if I'd if a computer can 835 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:08,800 solve my problems and I guess you saw 836 00:37:12,510 --> 00:37:10,810 that thing no a month or two back with 837 00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:12,520 Google where they had the voice ringing 838 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:16,720 that the ball will duplex so I meant 839 00:37:20,130 --> 00:37:17,770 Google for what they're doing there a 840 00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:20,140 very interesting project and what 841 00:37:23,420 --> 00:37:21,460 they're doing is interesting I wouldn't 842 00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:23,430 call it artificial general intelligence 843 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:27,190 if you it's mimicking intelligence it's 844 00:37:30,810 --> 00:37:29,290 it's mimicking and actually I would say 845 00:37:32,190 --> 00:37:30,820 even though I don't you know I don't 846 00:37:33,690 --> 00:37:32,200 wanna start a conspiracy theory I don't 847 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:33,700 I think behind the scenes here but I 848 00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:35,650 think it was a bit of a show that they 849 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:37,420 put on rather than a real technology 850 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:39,010 demonstration I mean they did what they 851 00:37:42,330 --> 00:37:40,810 didn't play I guess is the 12 times they 852 00:37:45,210 --> 00:37:42,340 rang up somebody and then but got it 853 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:45,220 completely wrong yeah and the bots the 854 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:47,170 real giveaway for me is those BOTS say 855 00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:50,050 things like um I've probably said I'm a 856 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:51,670 couple of times maybe you've slept a few 857 00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:53,170 and perhaps they'll disappear in editing 858 00:37:58,920 --> 00:37:57,160 if you can but not now that's something 859 00:38:01,200 --> 00:37:58,930 that no current state-of-the-art 860 00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:01,210 technology would insert for any reason 861 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:03,220 it had to be a deliberate choice to kind 862 00:38:07,170 --> 00:38:05,290 of deceive the other person or make them 863 00:38:08,670 --> 00:38:07,180 play the game a little bit so that that 864 00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:08,680 machine could gather some information 865 00:38:12,750 --> 00:38:10,960 and if you know as they point out if 866 00:38:15,630 --> 00:38:12,760 calling and saying are you open today on 867 00:38:17,070 --> 00:38:15,640 a holiday saves that company 18 phone 868 00:38:18,270 --> 00:38:17,080 calls asking the same thing because they 869 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:18,280 propagate that information of the 870 00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:19,510 website then that's great 871 00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:22,030 so as a technology wonderful as 872 00:38:27,570 --> 00:38:24,190 artificial intelligence not Google 873 00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:27,580 duplex yeah yeah so what sort of things 874 00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:29,470 do you cover in your podcast this sort 875 00:38:32,910 --> 00:38:31,000 of thing artificial intelligence when it 876 00:38:34,980 --> 00:38:32,920 comes to data rows your podcast more 877 00:38:37,350 --> 00:38:34,990 broad than that well we spend what I 878 00:38:39,810 --> 00:38:37,360 would call machine learning data science 879 00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:39,820 AI and we dabble a little bit in 880 00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:41,230 interesting topics that are kind of 881 00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:44,260 adjacent to that we tend to take on as 882 00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:46,480 of recently different seasonal themes so 883 00:38:50,490 --> 00:38:48,550 we did a theme on computational 884 00:38:52,410 --> 00:38:50,500 complexity theory late last year this 885 00:38:54,090 --> 00:38:52,420 whole year has been all about AI and in 886 00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,100 July it's gonna turn over to a brand new 887 00:38:59,370 --> 00:38:57,040 theme it'll be something I'm not ready 888 00:39:00,990 --> 00:38:59,380 to release yet but I can say it's very 889 00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:01,000 timely for things that are going on in 890 00:39:04,410 --> 00:39:02,260 the news ooh 891 00:39:07,350 --> 00:39:04,420 that could mean a lot of things could 892 00:39:09,630 --> 00:39:07,360 indeed yeah and how long is your podcast 893 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:09,640 be down there we're coming up on five 894 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:11,410 years sometime late this year I think 895 00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:13,450 yeah not quite it skeptics on that list 896 00:39:17,790 --> 00:39:14,800 but we're getting there 897 00:39:19,890 --> 00:39:17,800 Oh congratulations ie five uses is a big 898 00:39:21,630 --> 00:39:19,900 deal these days yeah definitely and how 899 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:21,640 often does he come out once a week 900 00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,610 oh and as someone who does it once a 901 00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:26,800 week podcast I can appreciate the time 902 00:39:30,090 --> 00:39:28,840 and effort in putting together that and 903 00:39:32,340 --> 00:39:30,100 what was the length of the podcast 904 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:32,350 roughly varies so we kind of switch up 905 00:39:37,110 --> 00:39:34,930 our formats I'll do interviews that'll 906 00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:37,120 be longer usually 30 40 minutes and then 907 00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:39,040 just about every other episode is what 908 00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:41,200 we call a mini episode 15-20 minutes 909 00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:43,660 where I talked to my wife was very 910 00:39:47,820 --> 00:39:45,520 intelligent smart woman but this isn't 911 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:47,830 her field and I try and break things 912 00:39:51,210 --> 00:39:49,090 down to her and get her to understand 913 00:39:53,190 --> 00:39:51,220 the concepts I work on so it's meant to 914 00:39:55,830 --> 00:39:53,200 be an explainer or a tutorial for people 915 00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:55,840 who are so she's asking the questions 916 00:40:01,020 --> 00:39:58,810 for the audience sort of exactly yeah 917 00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:01,030 sort of the the straight man or straight 918 00:40:05,460 --> 00:40:03,520 woman persona when I get into too much 919 00:40:06,570 --> 00:40:05,470 jargon she'll call me out on it and say 920 00:40:08,580 --> 00:40:06,580 what does that actually mean 921 00:40:11,490 --> 00:40:08,590 all right folks there's the clue there's 922 00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:11,500 the hint for you data skeptic skeptics 923 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:13,900 data skeptic skeptic singular singular 924 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:15,610 okay with a k' that's the name of the 925 00:40:20,430 --> 00:40:18,250 podcast links in this week's show notes 926 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:20,440 and don't be surprised in the coming 927 00:40:25,740 --> 00:40:23,050 months you'll hear a rotating promotion 928 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:25,750 for that podcast or car great to meet 929 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:28,450 you here at skeptic al thank you and a 930 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:29,890 very interesting talk on artificial 931 00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:31,810 intelligence and who knows if you give 932 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:33,340 that talk next year from behind a 933 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:34,810 curtain it might be a computer doing it 934 00:40:43,020 --> 00:40:35,320 for you 935 00:40:45,570 --> 00:40:43,030 you never know thank you this is Kyle 936 00:40:47,970 --> 00:40:45,580 from the data skeptic podcast if you're 937 00:40:50,430 --> 00:40:47,980 curious about the way data is changing 938 00:40:52,980 --> 00:40:50,440 our world topics like AI and all this 939 00:40:54,990 --> 00:40:52,990 craziness with Facebook and BOTS and the 940 00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:55,000 Twitter storm and how the algorithms 941 00:40:58,620 --> 00:40:57,040 that underline that work and you don't 942 00:41:00,300 --> 00:40:58,630 want a technical deep dive you want it 943 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:00,310 you know in the vernacular in a way that 944 00:41:03,690 --> 00:41:01,930 people can understand check us out at 945 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:03,700 data skeptic that's what we try and do I 946 00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:05,890 interview advanced professionals in the 947 00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:07,660 field who do this sort of research and 948 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:09,520 then I get into interesting projects as 949 00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:14,290 well we're a weekly show and you can 950 00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:15,920 find this data skeptic calm 951 00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:36,120 thank you for listening to the skeptic 952 00:41:40,650 --> 00:41:38,110 zone now coming up next week on the 953 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:40,660 skeptic CERN oh I really don't know 954 00:41:44,790 --> 00:41:43,090 that's that one of the mysteries of life 955 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:44,800 what's coming up on the next skeptic 956 00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:46,330 zone episode I don't have anything 957 00:41:50,820 --> 00:41:48,400 particularly lined up but never fear 958 00:41:54,540 --> 00:41:50,830 we'll get something together for you for 959 00:41:56,670 --> 00:41:54,550 next week I think think in the coming 960 00:41:59,490 --> 00:41:56,680 week I will be flying back to Sydney 961 00:42:02,100 --> 00:41:59,500 Australia back into and the nice cool 962 00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:02,110 winter now for those people who 963 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:04,270 subscribe to the skeptic magazine the 964 00:42:09,540 --> 00:42:05,890 Journal from Australian sceptics there's 965 00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:09,550 a story in the latest issue just posted 966 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:12,430 a week ago I think about the history of 967 00:42:18,510 --> 00:42:15,730 the skeptic zone podcast because we just 968 00:42:19,950 --> 00:42:18,520 recently celebrated 500 episodes I wrote 969 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:19,960 a little history and a little bit of a 970 00:42:23,790 --> 00:42:22,210 background to the skeptic zone if you're 971 00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:23,800 a subscriber you would have read that by 972 00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:25,870 now I hope if you're not a subscriber to 973 00:42:31,050 --> 00:42:27,580 the skeptic magazine from Australian 974 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:31,060 skeptics skeptics comdata you follow the 975 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:34,330 links and you can enjoy that magazine 976 00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:37,570 digitally or in your post box four times 977 00:42:42,090 --> 00:42:39,760 a year and thank you to those people who 978 00:42:45,180 --> 00:42:42,100 continue to support the skeptic zone via 979 00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:45,190 PayPal or patreon at skeptic zone TV and 980 00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:49,270 as I have been saying for 10 years your 981 00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:51,340 contributions make the show possible 982 00:42:55,230 --> 00:42:53,710 but until next week actually I've got to 983 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:55,240 get back to Sydney Australia really I've 984 00:42:59,400 --> 00:42:57,970 got to keep an eye on may not hmm if you 985 00:43:01,710 --> 00:42:59,410 haven't kept an eye on Maynard go to 986 00:43:03,180 --> 00:43:01,720 Maynard comm go to you for his podcasts 987 00:43:04,860 --> 00:43:03,190 but until next week 988 00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:04,870 this is Richard Saunders signing off 989 00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:13,560 you've been listening to the skeptic 990 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:16,480 zone podcast please visit our website at 991 00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:23,170 wwlp.com tax and to access the bat 992 00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:26,670 catalog of episodes going back to 2008 993 00:43:31,650 --> 00:43:29,350 you can follow the skeptic zone podcast 994 00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:31,660 on twitter at skeptic zone 995 00:43:35,780 --> 00:43:34,240 visit our facebook page or leave a 996 00:43:38,460 --> 00:43:35,790 review on itunes 997 00:43:41,850 --> 00:43:38,470 you can also support the skeptic zone 998 00:43:44,570 --> 00:43:41,860 via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone 999 00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:44,580 podcast is an independent production 1000 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:46,960 reviews and opinions expressed on the 1001 00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:49,090 skeptic zone are not necessarily those 1002 00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:51,430 of Australian skeptics for any other